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Warp Core Stabs (WCS) FINALLY eat it.

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Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:01:00 - [1] I actually really liked the idea of making POS's spawn with almost no shields and having to 'charge up' slowly over time unless charged from multiple capitol ships. Would make a huge dent in the POS spamming syndrome. A POS with no shields is VERY easy to take out. The problem with battlestar POS's is that they require such a huge friggen fleet to take down... 5-6 dreads... a fleet to protect the dreads.... etc.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 14:26:00 - [2] Originally by: Pax Althaleen It IS true to say that this will prompt alot more thought about going into Low Sec and 0.0. Many will simply NOT do It now with this WCS Nerf coming. All I'm simply stating is that It will be a HUGE Factor in whether Newer Peeps will venture out there - Plain and simple... Now I've seen a fair amount of Discussion in the Forums about how Empty Low Sec and 0.0 can be and that those that live in these Areas would like to see more Targets - Er Uhmmmm - Pilots I mean in those Areas. I honestly don't see how a Nerf like this would promote anything BUT more of the same behaviour of staying in NPC CORPs and never going into Low Sec or 0.0 Personally - I was about to make a move out into 0.0 but now this has Me thinking that I'll just see how the Wind Blows and postpone My trip until after Kali "1" comes out. Now You can say what You want about that but Daddy didn't raise no fool. I will as others - Calculate My Odds and act accordingly but I am sure that alot of other Peeps will be doing the same. This WCS Nerf will figure prominently in that thinking... Regards, Erm I live in lowsec I never equip stabs unless there is, literally, nothing better to put there (which, since I use a ferox and/or a Caracal, means I never equip stabs unless in travel mode). If I'm ratting I'm combat fitted If I'm PVP'ing I'm combat fitted If I'm mining (in an osprey) I'm MINING fitted none of those fittings includes WCS 0.0 (and lowsec) is fairly easy to survive in. 1) Never warp to 15km 2) Make your own BM's so you can warp in at odd distances 3) Never fight on the ecliptic 4) In larger ships always fight aligned. You will almost never get ganked. People who equip stabs are generally people who die. Rig to win. Not to run.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Elianidd Farseeker "However in nerfing the combat ability of stabbed ships CCP have nerfed the ships of lowsec misson runners and ratters. We do fit stabs with and legitimate reason - we are not fitted for PVP and want to avoid a fight with another player. Now if I take the most elementary precaution against pirates and fit a stab or two I totally nerf my PVE setup." What he said. As always, PvEers suffer for the sake of PvP game abuse. Couldn't they have found a different/better way to "nerf" the WCS sniper abuse without totally screwing low-sec PvEers? It'll be ironic how many MORE cries we'll be having for more people in low-sec after this, since this change will "scare" people out of low-sec even more than currently. To me, this sounds like a "knee-jerk" type reaction rather than something truly thought-out. You don't need stabs to rat safely in lowsec. 1) Warp in at 40km instead of 15 (actually warp in at 100.. the rats WILL come to you. 2) after warping in go UP (or down) away from the ecliptic... the rats WILL follow you. 3) Fight while running away from the ecliptic. Any Player pirates that warp into the belt will likely warp in at 15km (thus being 85km+ away). even if they warp in at the same distance you did by some miracle they will be several dozen KM away from you because you're not on the ecliptic you're up above it or below it (it's called being 'off grid'). So they will then have to fly to you and get within scramble range (giving you PLENTY of time to warp away). I never fit stabs when ratting in 0.0 or lowsec. I can see why some do. but they are absolutely not needed. And fitting them, even now, significantly reduces the damage you could be doing if you didn't have them fitted. Thus making it take longer, thus leaving you exposed longer, thus increasing the chance of a pirate finding you. And you absolutely do NOT need stabs in missions. Kill the scrambler ships first. If you can't kill the scrambler ship before you need to warp away then you have no business doing that level of mission yet.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:24:00 - [4] Originally by: Novan Leon Originally by: Cyrus Phoenix Originally by: Taram Caldar Rig to win. Not to run. Signed Here's the problem I have with this: People generally configure their ships according to the task at hand. PVP config PVE config Mission config Mining config In EVE you will have a completely different config for fighting rats as opposed to fighting other players. PVPers generally travel in groups and sweep systems looking for unsuspecting PVEers, Mission runners and miners who usually don't stand a chance against a PVP setup and have no choice but to run. With the upcoming WCS changes you're effectively... 1. Greatly decreasing the survivability of ratters and mission runners in lowsec. Other than some mediocre annoyance, Miners won't be affected all that much. 2. Forcing the use of Local to survive. (Before this change I would have loved to see local removed completely, but this pretty much makes it a necessity.) 3. Forcing people to rat with a PVP config AND/OR forcing people to rat in much larger groups than usual (I'm talking 5+). One way to justify this WCS change would be to change the rats so that they actually fight much more like actual players (such as the ability to effectively use and be suseptible to EW). This would combine your PVP and PVE config so that any ratting or mission running party could be effective in PVP as well. This would be the ideal change. Look I rat in 0.0 I rat in lowsec I have NEVER used WCS when ratting. I have NEVER been popped when ratting. Ever See my post above for how to do this. Always Always Always rig to win. You don't need WCS to Rat or run missions.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 15:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Soraya Silvermoon Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker think of all the gate snipers that will go pop now because they cant have their half rack of stabs. Roflmao... Seriously. if your in a sniping ship 200km from a gate wtf are you going to use warpcores for? Warp disrupter range is 20km and youll not get it much further even with the gallente recon :P Actually this change boost snipers becasue the dimwits who fitted warpcores while sniping will now fit damage mods. Getting warped in on? covert ops making warpin point? No A sniper dont sit in the same position for that long.. Allso it just takes the click of a button for a sniper to warp out when he see something in overview. Need no warpcores as the enemy havent dropped out of warp yet. THinking snipers will go pop becaseu of this is let me put it as a less thought through concept. This will enhacne sniping because ppl will want to stay outside warp disruption range. Erm actually you're incorrect. Snipers sit stationary. Covops can fly up and get a scrammer on them while rest of fleet warps in. Covops can passive tank (with speed) long enough for fleet to arrive and get non-covops points on sniper then warp away safe. That or a breakup force can warp in from another quadrant and get scrams on them before they can warp away. Problem before was it wasn't worth the effort to coordinate this because the campers would just warp out with 7 points of WCS on them and you couldn't stop it. Now they won't have that so you can.
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Seth Allasatre How did we get to page 5 and no one made the following suggestion? Fit a good active sensor booster to offset the penalty of the WCS. So, in essence, it will now cost a low AND a mid slot (and a little bit of cap) to use stabs. For the pilot who fits a single stab just to get away when the heat is too high, it'll be a minor inconvenience. One sensor booster per WCS won't make sense for those who fit a half rack, but that's a good thing. Actually if you read through the thread several people have pointed this out :)
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.10.25 19:12:00 - [7] Originally by: Locke DieDrake I'm happy to see the WCS nerf. It's about damn time. Now, about bookmarks and logging out... My only concern is how it's going to affect PVE missioning. My raven doesn't survive lvl4's without a warp out now and then. Especially when I forget to change the hardeners. This is probably going to make it harder for me to lvl4's. But thats ok, because missions suck. Same advice I give corp mates who get scrammed now: Don't equip stabs... simply.... ... ... ... Blow up the Scrambler ships first.

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